printscreen image of a Twitter post by BTC with her links to the Yalom interview
printscreen image of a Twitter post by BTC with her links to the Yalom interview

Note No.5

In this note you can read ours

notion of  internalizing a therapists’

(“voice” of) meta – interest / curiosity

(see our webpage on meta-…)

as the toughest yet most valuable outcome

of any therapy, “being confirmed”

(in this interview) by such a psychotherapy

authority as Irvin D. Yalom

So if only we can inculcate in the patient this passion (  = emotion, comment by S.)

for curiosity;

to fertilize this curiosity about themselves.

When people don’t have any curiosity about themselves

that is always a bad sign.

I keep trying to figure out ways to induce curiosity, even if

it’s by saying to them:

“how come I’m so much more curious about you

than you are about yourself?”



Lets do a little calculation.

An average parent makes at least one tiny mistake per day – it’s inevitable because an average one has other things to direct his/her attention to, not just parenting. I know, I am parent. If not ones’ own inner children (i.e. therapy and recovery process), then at least there is job or housework (if not both, or, all of the tree).

How many “sorry”‘s does then an average parent owe to an adult child?

If they immediately or during the day or within a reasonable delay manage to apologize for the mistakes done, then none apologies are owed. But such a parents must be exceptions to the rule.

The rest of (average) parents skip an opportunity to do it on several occasions.

Let us say it is a safe estimate to say at least once a week a parent skips an apology.

Lets multiply… once (1) x (4 weeks) x (12 months) x (18 years) = 846 skipped apologies.

A lot, isn’t it?

And remember we are talking an average (good-enough?!), i.e. non-abusive parent only…

I have shared – replying to David’s reply to Kathy’s blog post – how I died in order to get my life back ;-)

@ David – oh, my, I now understand a connection that was felt by some alters towards you despite the literary (intellectually) elitist defense that has frightened our other alters at your blog.

The alter, the suicidal (I prefer to label it self-hatred alter because I agree with my host that it is not the behavior but the extreme emotion what happens to be a driving force behind alters), you were describing above, is almost an exact copy of my self-hatred alter!

“(…) there is nothing that this alter admits to wanting, except wanting our shared body to be dead. S/he wants only the cessation of our existence

Reading the above quote, I had to smile because that’s how he felt, and he was deaf to all reasons and arguments coming from the rest of us (our system) and encouragements that he, too, can learn to enjoy life if he only let us help him.

He hated to be offered (or getting) help by anyone at all (even more than Ithe bold alterdo ;) )…

“(…) the only thing this alter ever does, aside from wishing we were all dead, is to sit in his/her room, watching static patterns on the television”

My self-hatred alter could be distracted by being shown the same cartoons over and over (any new cartoons would just make him want our body to cease to exist, no matter what.). Nothing could make him a bit happier or wanting to learn to enjoy life, those cartoons just distracted him (they didn’t make him any happier, though!). He had only one wish – to see me dead, and since I saw no other option but to let him express and fulfill his dream, a had a series of most vivid dreams.

In one of those dreams which I had in several  consequent (consecutive) nights I have thrown my body on the knife (going through my heart and I died).

The other dream was of experiencing heaving brain stroke and I could see my brain dying one brain center after another – until there was dead body left on the bed and I was leaving the body).

The third dream was of our body walking, refusing to hide, in the middle of atom bomb attack, exposing to the explosions until the body was fried to death.

Making his dreams true in a way,   make made him feel valid and acknowledged and his extreme feelings accepted by the rest of us (our system). It felt a kind of gift given to him by the rest of us that made him a satisfied little boy, and now being able to learn to enjoy life with the rest of us…

I have surprised other alters in our system by publicly declaring our system’s intention to become a trauma therapist one day here who will keep saying “I’m sorry” (and mean it).

@ BTC – I agree with you about the psychotherapists (in fact, anyone I happen to be in a non-equal relationship with, especially) having to be able to say “I’m sorry” (and mean it) *AND* repeat it, and reiterate it – as many times as the client (or part of the client in DID case) needs to hear it.

If/when I am going to become a psychotherapist myself one day, I know I’ll keep saying “I’m sorry” a lot!

But first I’m planning to build the promised website where the survivors could read as many times as they need God saying it to them!

As a therapist I plan to keep saying it very frequently not because I’ll be making mistakes very frequently (which I have no doubt I will do from time to time) but because I know it is needed by the clients.

And this is something probably not underlined enough in trainings, correct me if I am wrong.

Here is link to Samo’s post containing the link to promised website that has been finished somewhat later (it wouldn’t be if we were not supported by Castor Girl’s comments)

Below you can read my humble contribution – did I say humble? it must be a joke, it is my job in our system to never (ever) be humble, what is going on with me, am I <softening or what? this should not happen!:) unless the host will become bolder, and each of us individually more balanced… phew… is this good at all? – to the great discussion held at the BTC’s place (blog).

I actually agree with BTC that a “vulnerable client who is working within a dangerous unstable and clearly narcissistic framework” is like princess from H.C.Andersen’s tale The Princess and The Pea where her sensitivity is viewed as bad manners by those who should have known better. Alice Miller – see the Wikipedia article on her – is an author who wrote excellent books – about more or less subtle ways therapists respond (she even left the psychoanalytic society because of that) narcissistically to the clients’ needs.

Below you can read what we wrote under Castor Girl’s  post, but it is really our reply to the “protected” (i.e. hidden content) post.

We noticed the post is showing signs (such as being categorized/tagged under “Self injury, Suicidal ideation” etc, by herself) which tell us the inside anger was re-directed at herself instead at those who are really guilty (i.e. the ACC/et al)

Dear Castor Girl

In my opinion it is unfair (by the ACC, the legal system, the society as whole, the God) to trigger you with having to list the incidences of abuse (before allowing you to be helped).

It’s plain wrong what they are doing. They are guilty. Not you.

Please let the inside hatred be directed at them (not at yourself by self-injuring).

They deserve to be injuried (i.e. not you).

Can you express the inside hatred at them, please?

If you can not… can you at least direct the anger at me (for whatever reason) instead of self-injuring?

They should apologize to you for triggering you.

Below you can read my reply to Ivory’s reply to Kathy’s post at her blog.

She brought up to the surface an idea (I almost forgot about, thank you for reviving it again now, Kathy and Ivory) related to my own need as a childhood sexual abuse survivor to protest against – I won’t tell you in advance against what, I would prefer to invite you to read below against what and why etc

Ivory, or may I say dear Ivory?

You wrote “RE: #6: I have religious issues. For me, the abuse amplified the Deity in my belief, and erased any certainty I was important in His eyes. I can’t stop wondering, “Where was He?” I honestly believed that of all the people in my life, He would be the one to save me…”

I’d like to share with you my personal experience with the issue of religion, namely, God (those parts of me who don’t believe in God can still relate because they understand God as “representative of the whole society/community”, therefore everybody).

My personal experience made me want to hear God apologizing to the innocent children who were victimized because He did nothing about it!

And not only He is guilty for not helping at the time, but He is guilty also of not helping now by allowing some lay people (and sometimes professionals too to make it harder for survivors to 1. understand what happened to them, 2. to acknowledge, and 3. to get helped for it – because God lets people (like the DreamGuy at Wikipedia) to push their own denial on everybody else, not just on themselves by saying DID is mere pretending and iatrogenic!

I will only go to church when it will be written with large letters above the entrance “I apologize – God”.

Once I conversed with (another) survivor of childhood sexual abuse about the idea that there should be such a church somewhere because survivors do really need such a church, I said to her maybe  should it be called “The Church of The_Apologizing_God“?

She said it would be a good thing.

We feel it would be really a good thing because only that way God may be forgiven by the survivors for what He has let to happen to the innocent children!

Or I will tell God “be sure not to allow to happen it again, or you will be fired from your job, and we will find another god who will do his job better!”

She was laughing at my idea but she liked it anyway.  So I do.  Still. Even more now when you brought it up again, Ivory! Thank you and thank you Kathy for helping it being brought up!

P. S.
We were surprised to find there are – I couldn’t belive my eyes –  professional theologians  having similar ideas to the above idea when we stumbled upon a book titled “Facing the Abusing God” (written by rabbi Blumenthal who says we all should bless the act of fighting with God as the only means by which human dignity can be asserted in the aftermath of the holocaust and aftermath of the child sexual abuse, oh, there is even one blog mentioning the book, maybe I should write a blog post about it myself, too – a note to myself :) )

Googling for its title I was surprised to find a couple of  (I almost forgot there are other people writing stuff there, not only the DID deniers) Wikipedia articles quoting it, i.e. the  protest theology.

However noone else came up with an idea of putting those letters above the entrance of a temple/church/pagoda/whatever – in order for survivors of childhood sexual absuse to be able to forgive God for what he allowed to be done to innocent children.

Maybe it’s time to build an The_Apologizing_God” church/whatever online for those of us who need it on our path to our – not only bodily/emotional/psychosocial but also spiritual – recovery.

Should I really build such a website? Yes!