sharing negativeness/positiveness across alters

Actually it’s

NOT funny



one of our alters

changed it

to reflect

the truth

about DID

  • so, if you want the original –  funny one

and have a good laughter,

click here

otherwise proceed with caution…

The joke… not funny anymore

Q: How many alters does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Four.

One to  change be used as a means by a perpetrator changing the bulb,

one to watch the abuse,

one to deny the abuse in the name of the bulb needing to be changed exactly the way it was done,

and one to repress the associations/memories/emotions about it.

Now, try to google the joke by clicking the link
How many alters does it take to change a light bulb? (<– click)
and see
another joke
(this one made by google)

You must be joking, google, No! I did NOT mean letters

obviously making another (meta-)joke –

i.e. joke about the joke

– yourself, don’t you, Google?!? ;)


Lets do a little calculation.

An average parent makes at least one tiny mistake per day – it’s inevitable because an average one has other things to direct his/her attention to, not just parenting. I know, I am parent. If not ones’ own inner children (i.e. therapy and recovery process), then at least there is job or housework (if not both, or, all of the tree).

How many “sorry”‘s does then an average parent owe to an adult child?

If they immediately or during the day or within a reasonable delay manage to apologize for the mistakes done, then none apologies are owed. But such a parents must be exceptions to the rule.

The rest of (average) parents skip an opportunity to do it on several occasions.

Let us say it is a safe estimate to say at least once a week a parent skips an apology.

Lets multiply… once (1) x (4 weeks) x (12 months) x (18 years) = 846 skipped apologies.

A lot, isn’t it?

And remember we are talking an average (good-enough?!), i.e. non-abusive parent only…

I have surprised other alters in our system by publicly declaring our system’s intention to become a trauma therapist one day here who will keep saying “I’m sorry” (and mean it).

@ BTC – I agree with you about the psychotherapists (in fact, anyone I happen to be in a non-equal relationship with, especially) having to be able to say “I’m sorry” (and mean it) *AND* repeat it, and reiterate it – as many times as the client (or part of the client in DID case) needs to hear it.

If/when I am going to become a psychotherapist myself one day, I know I’ll keep saying “I’m sorry” a lot!

But first I’m planning to build the promised website where the survivors could read as many times as they need God saying it to them!

As a therapist I plan to keep saying it very frequently not because I’ll be making mistakes very frequently (which I have no doubt I will do from time to time) but because I know it is needed by the clients.

And this is something probably not underlined enough in trainings, correct me if I am wrong.

Here is link to Samo’s post containing the link to promised website that has been finished somewhat later (it wouldn’t be if we were not supported by Castor Girl’s comments)

Below you can read my humble contribution – did I say humble? it must be a joke, it is my job in our system to never (ever) be humble, what is going on with me, am I <softening or what? this should not happen!:) unless the host will become bolder, and each of us individually more balanced… phew… is this good at all? – to the great discussion held at the BTC’s place (blog).

I actually agree with BTC that a “vulnerable client who is working within a dangerous unstable and clearly narcissistic framework” is like princess from H.C.Andersen’s tale The Princess and The Pea where her sensitivity is viewed as bad manners by those who should have known better. Alice Miller – see the Wikipedia article on her – is an author who wrote excellent books – about more or less subtle ways therapists respond (she even left the psychoanalytic society because of that) narcissistically to the clients’ needs.

Below you can read my reply to Ivory’s reply to Kathy’s post at her blog.

She brought up to the surface an idea (I almost forgot about, thank you for reviving it again now, Kathy and Ivory) related to my own need as a childhood sexual abuse survivor to protest against – I won’t tell you in advance against what, I would prefer to invite you to read below against what and why etc

Ivory, or may I say dear Ivory?

You wrote “RE: #6: I have religious issues. For me, the abuse amplified the Deity in my belief, and erased any certainty I was important in His eyes. I can’t stop wondering, “Where was He?” I honestly believed that of all the people in my life, He would be the one to save me…”

I’d like to share with you my personal experience with the issue of religion, namely, God (those parts of me who don’t believe in God can still relate because they understand God as “representative of the whole society/community”, therefore everybody).

My personal experience made me want to hear God apologizing to the innocent children who were victimized because He did nothing about it!

And not only He is guilty for not helping at the time, but He is guilty also of not helping now by allowing some lay people (and sometimes professionals too to make it harder for survivors to 1. understand what happened to them, 2. to acknowledge, and 3. to get helped for it – because God lets people (like the DreamGuy at Wikipedia) to push their own denial on everybody else, not just on themselves by saying DID is mere pretending and iatrogenic!

I will only go to church when it will be written with large letters above the entrance “I apologize – God”.

Once I conversed with (another) survivor of childhood sexual abuse about the idea that there should be such a church somewhere because survivors do really need such a church, I said to her maybe  should it be called “The Church of The_Apologizing_God“?

She said it would be a good thing.

We feel it would be really a good thing because only that way God may be forgiven by the survivors for what He has let to happen to the innocent children!

Or I will tell God “be sure not to allow to happen it again, or you will be fired from your job, and we will find another god who will do his job better!”

She was laughing at my idea but she liked it anyway.  So I do.  Still. Even more now when you brought it up again, Ivory! Thank you and thank you Kathy for helping it being brought up!

P. S.
We were surprised to find there are – I couldn’t belive my eyes –  professional theologians  having similar ideas to the above idea when we stumbled upon a book titled “Facing the Abusing God” (written by rabbi Blumenthal who says we all should bless the act of fighting with God as the only means by which human dignity can be asserted in the aftermath of the holocaust and aftermath of the child sexual abuse, oh, there is even one blog mentioning the book, maybe I should write a blog post about it myself, too – a note to myself :) )

Googling for its title I was surprised to find a couple of  (I almost forgot there are other people writing stuff there, not only the DID deniers) Wikipedia articles quoting it, i.e. the  protest theology.

However noone else came up with an idea of putting those letters above the entrance of a temple/church/pagoda/whatever – in order for survivors of childhood sexual absuse to be able to forgive God for what he allowed to be done to innocent children.

Maybe it’s time to build an The_Apologizing_God” church/whatever online for those of us who need it on our path to our – not only bodily/emotional/psychosocial but also spiritual – recovery.

Should I really build such a website? Yes!

Below you can read an example of Victimization Sequelae’s morbid hatred at abusers.

As it was written by my very very nice and intellectual host at his blog posts today (my host Samo is extremely proud of  the fact that the extremely morbid hatred at abusers was not expressed by him, by the way), the driving force behind every “personality” switch is avoidance of an extreme emotion (and the emphasis is on extreme, not emotion itself!).

However, he will have to let me at least quote “An Open Letter to the Wikipedia “editor” of DID article”  in which another alter (he later was allowed to have his own blog) whose extreme emotions were triggered by what he saw at Wikipedia article on DID.

He expressed what he felt like doing afterwards:






only proceed with the maximum caution






expressing extremely morbid hatred at abusers and towards people who publicly make it harder for dissociation sufferers to 1. understand what is it happening to them, 2. acknowledge it, 3. get helped for it (not something similar or completely different, like for example, hysteria or psychosis etc, but for DID)







triggering – last warning!




So, DreamGuy, you are publicly making it harder for dissociation sufferers to be able to achieve all three things, huh?

I could sue you for what you are doing publicly, denying DID and telling the sufferers that they only pretend to have parts that contain the extreme responses to victimization!

Will I sue you DreamGuy? No!!!!! I want you to suffer the way DIDers had to suffer prior to becoming DIDers, the way they suffered you will!!!!!! Then I will tell you that what you are experiencing it’s just pretending ha ha ha ha

Get ready – Dreaming Guy – to wake up into a living night mare!!!!!  ha ha ha ha ha

You will be glad to become dissociative yourself in order to cope with the nightmare I will turn your  dream life into!

It’s not a matter of (Neutral) Point of View that you are hiding behind at Wikipedia, no, it is now a matter of life and death, death in your case …. ha ha ha ha

Get ready DreamGuy to pay for it!

I am an expert in making you suffer up to the point where you will dissociate because my abusers have made me one ha ha ha ha welcome to the dissociative paradise!

I have nothing to lose – I have lost myself long long ago ha ha ha ha ha

I will track you down and that scientist who claims that child sexual abuse has no clinically significant consequences and will rape you both ha ha ha ha ha

and you won’t be able to tell anyone ‘cos I will do it so that it will look like as if you wanted to happen, anyway ha ha ha ha ha

and you will be so humiliated that you will want to commit suicide ha ha ha ha ha

No mercy for those assisting abusers the way you do it publicly!


In our country after the war the pro-Nazi quislings and people like you who allied with the aggressors/abusers were butchered and thrown into the abysses/mine holes, you deserve to have the same fate ha ha ha ha ha

End of quote.

This is an example of expression of extremely morbid hatred contained within one of my alters and put down on the paper and then transcribed and quoted here in order to integrate him with the rest of our alters so that he would not need to direct the triggered hatred toward ourselves with suicidal ideation, self-injury etc

We thank our alter for keeping those emotions away from us for such a long time and welcome him in our midst because we feel this is the only way the extreme emotions can be transformed into something creative and non-threatening to others and ourselves. Thanks again, unnamed alter!

You’re welcome…

wow said my inner child.

“Wow”, repeated my host… others as well expressed their gratitude for letting the emotions being transformed through (creative) writing, letting them the Light to replace the darkness where they were hiding so long unacknowledged by us.

We are sorry that we weren’t able to get help to do it sooner.

But better late than never, we suppose :)

Somebody want to cry from being moved now. Cry, baby, cry says a soothing “voice” of Love.


Below is an excerpt from the Frank Ochberg’s webpage:

Proposed Diagnostic Criteria for Victimization Sequelae Syndrome/Disorder

A. The experience (or witnessing) of one or more episodes of physical violence or psychological abuse or of being coerced into sexual activity by another person.

B. The development of at least (number to be determined) of the following symptoms (not present before the victimization experiences):

1. A generalized sense of being ineffective in dealing with one’s environment that is not limited to the victimization experience (e.g., generalized passivity, lack of assertiveness, or lack of confidence in one’s own judgment).

2. The belief that one has been permanently damaged by the victimization experience (e.g., a sexually abused child or rape victim believing that he or she will never be attractive to others).

3. Feeling isolated or unable to trust or to be intimate with others.

4. Over inhibition of anger or excessive expression of anger.

5. Inappropriate minimizing of the injuries that were inflicted.

6. Amnesia for the victimization experiences.

7. Belief that one deserved to be victimized, rather than blaming the perpetrator.

8. Vulnerability to being revictimized.

9. Adopting the distorted beliefs of the perpetrator with regard to interpersonal behavior (e.g., believing that it is OK for parents to have sex with their children, or that it is OK for a husband to beat his wife to keep her obedient).

10. Inappropriate idealization of the perpetrator.

C. Duration of the disturbance of at least one month.

Appendix 2

Victimization Symptoms: A Distinct Subcategory of Traumatic Stress

1. Shame: Deep embarrassment, often characterized as humiliation or mortification.

2. Self-blame: Exaggerated feelings of responsibility for the traumatic event, with guilt and remorse, despite obvious evidence of innocence.

3. Subjugation: Feeling belittled, dehumanized, lowered in dominance, and powerless as a direct result of the trauma.

4. Morbid hatred: Obsessions of vengeance and preoccupation with hurting or humiliating the perpetrator, with or without outbursts of anger or rage.

5. Paradoxical gratitude: Positive feelings toward the victimizer ranging from compassion to romantic love, including attachment but not necessarily identification. The feelings are usually experienced as ironic but profound gratitude for the gift of life from one who has demonstrated the will to kill. (Also known as pathological transference and/or Stockholm syndrome).

6. Defilement: Feeling dirty, disgusted, disgusting, tainted, “like spoiled goods,” and in extreme cases, rotten and evil.

7. Sexual inhibition: Loss of libido, reduced capacity for intimacy, more frequently associated with sexual assault.

8. Resignation: A state of broken will or despair, often associated with repetitive victimization or prolonged exploitation, with markedly diminished interest in past or future.

9. Second injury or second wound: Revictimization through participation in the criminal justice, health, mental health, and other systems.

10. Socioeconomic status downward drift: Reduction of opportunity or life-style, and increased risk of repeat criminal victimization due to psychological, social, and vocational impairment.

Below is my reply to Kathy’s all-positive post, where I explained – to my alters I guess first of all – how it is a mistake to not allow the positiveness to be shared by all the alters, not only me – the all-positive alter.

It is a mistake to confine the negativeness only to the rest of our alters and see them as all-negative.

Re: “But on this one day, I decided to focus on the positive, and only the positive. Actually, I made this post because I had a sense that too many of the posts prior to that time were heavy-laden, sad, depressing, frustrating.”

I can appreciate the good intentions you started with when deciding to publish the “all positive post”. Having said that, however, I still don’t buy the final product that came out from the factory, despite my appreciating the good intentions that “engineering department” had when making a blue-print. Let me clarify what I mean.

I mean it’s a mistake to try and compensate for previous posts’ presumably all-negative spin by creating one post that would be all-positive. Why it is a mistake to do so?

Well, because it is similarly to creating another – like me :) – all-positive alter in order to compensate for the rest of person’s alters’ worthlessness (imposed upon the person by the abusers in the process of victimization).

The same way my perceived high worth should be integrated (like in the osmosis, distributed among the rest of alters, as well) into the whole person, the positiveness of your all-positive post should be shared by the rest of your posts, and vice versa – their negativeness should be shared with this one post. Otherwise your blog that offers healing from the dissociation ironically suffers from dissociation itself, as well.


– – –
Update No.1  – Kathy’s reply to the above reply of mine:

Kathy Broady said,

March 11, 2009 at 9:49 am

hi Sam,

I think of it as a matter of balance.

Not compensating, that puts a “negative slant” onto my positive point! :D


Because there ARE some things that can be considered positive about multiplicity. Yes, there are negative results about multiplicity, and those things are well-expanded upon in this blog. (And/or will continue to be so, because I won’t refer to this blog as a finished product — I’ve got on-going plans to continue on with the blogging! I really don’t think I’m done with this yet, lol…)

The truth is that there are both positives and negatives to being multiple.

Both exist.

I have no doubt that many multiples could easily easily tell me the down-side of being multiple.

But how many multiples can tell me the positives they feel about it??

As we can see in the comments on these topics, it’s clearly a very hard thing for DID survivors to sort through, or to grasp, or to experience, or to recognize, or to accept … ??? I think a lot of that difficulty is because a lot of folks tangle the negative effects of being severely abused in as one and the same as multiplicity.

My challenge to everyone is to remember to separate out the effects of the trauma and to distinguish those very very clearly from the multiplicity. As a sweeping kind of statement, I can say that I don’t think there are too many positive effects caused by such severe trauma….

Multiplicity is not one and the same as the trauma.

And I promise you, I’ve talked with a whole variety of multiples who have come to enjoy and cherish their multiplicity while they still very much were not happy about the trauma, they can see that the being multiple in itself (with cohesion, communication, and team work in place!) doesn’t have to be so negative.


And acceptance even.

And feeling some self-appreciation.

And maybe even some self-worth.


Wouldn’t that be a good thing.



– – –
Update No.2 – my reply to the above reply:

March 11, 2009 at 10:14 am


Thank you for talking to me even (or especially) when it seems the two of us can only agree to disagree. It really does give a balance – so you see I like your term – to disagreening that we are able to at least agree on disagreement :)

We seem to disagree on what level the balance should be achieved, you say it can be on the “collective” level i.e. across all your posts, and I think it should be achieved at the “individual” level, i.e. within each post.

Maybe because it reminds me of my goal to first try and achieve the balance *within* each of my alters “individually” before trying to spill the balance across all of me as a whole person (across all alters “collectively”).

I think it would make the integration much more smooth that way, because each of them would already have a balance within… What do you think?


– – –